09/15/09 169 W, 1 I - + 13 - 8 This Afternoon's Major Fire / East Millbrook Road

Two alarms at 1005 E. Millbrook Road. Or is it third-alarm equivalent? Callers reported explosions and possibly people trapped. Car 73 and then Engine 9 arriving at a two-story, wood-frame residence with heavy fire conditions. Building with 1,890 square-feet, built 1970. Second alarm quickly requested. Interior attack, with defensive periods. Ladder 1 utilized for aerial operations. Millbrook Road closed in both directions. Two hydrants caught. Several pets rescue. Adult male victim located that evening, deceased. Two firefighters transported, one with burns, one with dehydration. Both released Tuesday evening. Dispatched 2:54 p.m.; controlled 5:29 p.m; command terminated 11:18 p.m. by Engine 6. First alarm fire: E9, E4, E19, L1, R1, B1. Working fire: E11, C10, C20, A1. Second alarm: E22, E18, E7, L2, R2, B2. Other: C1, C2, C4, C73, B4. Special called: E15, E16, E1, HM2, E6, L5. EMS units included EMS 5, EMS 13, EMS 31, EMS 121, EMS 1210, M94, D3, D6, T1. Preliminary photos posted by Legeros. Media links: N&O, WRAL, WTVD.

2 comments from an unknowing bystander …

When there’s that many hoses laying all over the road, when it’s all over does it really matter if your vehicle gets your exact hose put back on it?
Or do you just work on the assumption that if you leave the fire with the same number of hoses you started with then it’s all good?

And I’m struck by the difference in appearance of the folks in these 2 photos
I think Tide should use the guys in the 2nd photo in an advert for getting your gear clean :)
Paul - 09/15/09 - 18:25

Paul- the guys in the white gear (2nd photo) are chief officers who, in most cases, don’t actually DO the firefighting anymore. One of those pictured I know has put in many hours of actual down-in-the-soot work, but it is not his job anymore. Years ago the fire service realized that someone had to be in charge and that those persons cold not be on the end of a hose line or at the top of a ladder. So, they establish a command post, ususally in front of the fire, and run the show. Sort of like a general running a battlefield.

The guy in the red helmet, while an officer, is a LINE officer, meaning that he is at the end of the hose, and in the burning structure with his crew, providing on the spot leadership. He is also the eyes and ears of the command staff outside. His gear will get dirty.

Of course, these days a priority is paid to cleaning gear (many fire stations have washing machines specially designed for this purpose) because of the toxins that accumulate in dirty gear that is carrying the by products of combustion. In my days as a firefighter, we tried to get our gear as dirty as we could, sort of a ‘black badge or aggressiveness’.

Thank God we have, for the most part, gotten out of that mind set.
DJ (Email) - 09/15/09 - 22:18

Updated with info. from Lee, who has posted his photos, http://www.flickr.com/photos/leewilson/s..
Legeros - 09/16/09 - 06:50

I would say 3rd alarm.

I for one am glad the County went back to Morning Pride, GXtreme sucks and doesn’t hold up.
Mike - 09/16/09 - 11:57

DJ, it’s pretty obvious they aren’t “get your hands dirty” folk anymore, it was just that they looked SO much cleaner than everyone else!
Paul - 09/16/09 - 12:18


Good to see someone finally in this area trying to use the ladder to put water on the fire instead of trying to blast off the shingles.
Mike - 09/16/09 - 13:28

Final photos by Legeros posted.
Legeros - 09/16/09 - 19:58

Mike, we’ve come a looonnnggg way. A roof is designed to prevent water from getting in, whether it be from a hose stream or mother nature. I was happy to see them applying water through a window, into the ceiling area, which is ideal. Now, if we could just get the use of some straight tips in there…

Good job by the crews on scene, aggressive searches were performed but it seems the “explosion” was in fact the cause of the collapse (which is where the vic was found). Anyone on scene, can you verify?
Silver - 09/17/09 - 12:49

Silver, Just curious as to why you feel it’s necessary to add criticism to everything? Granted I ride a rescue so obviously I don’t know how to fight fire with a hose or a ladder truck but I thought the purpose of a smooth bore nozzle was for reach and penetration? It appears from the pictures that neither was an issue with the use of the fog tip. Don’t get me wrong, I like the fact that you are thinking outside the box and it appears that more are doing the same myself included. But a smooth bore tip is not the answer every time. I’m sure Capt. Braxton is aware that the truck is equipped with smooth bore tips and I’m sure he thought about them. But maybe, just maybe, he made the decision to stick with what was on there and not spend the few extra minutes to swap out the tips with the hope that a quick knockdown might possibly allow a hose company to get in there again and save a victim’s life.
And one last thing, we all know the purpose of a roof. I can’t ever remember a ladder truck ever setting up and spraying water on an intact roof.
RescueRanger - 09/17/09 - 20:28

I was out there on this scene. I thought the guys did a standup job getting this fire knocked down and under control with a minimum of injuries. I worked in the rehab sector for most of the time I was out there, and then I left to transport a FF to the ER. I didn’t see anything in the scene or from talking to the firefighters there that would make me question the decisions that were made.

Silver – I didn’t arive first, nor did I go up there, but from what I have heard, the victim was found in the collapse zone.

Mike – Please add EMS 5 to the run sheet, as they were the inital EMS RIT team (and, don’t get me started on that).
CJS (Email) - 09/18/09 - 02:27

Rescue, I strongly suggest you do a little research on some of the basics. While it’s easy to criticize while you sit behind your clever screen name, I make my name available so if someone doesn’t agree, we can discuss with no ill feelings. It’s ok to take the cowardly route though, it’s common place around here for some, now let me address your comments.

First, this is Mikey L’s blog. ANYONE can comment, WHENEVER they’d like, and as often as they’d like. Mike can remove posts as he deems necessary.

Clean your glasses or get your eyes checked; “A roof is designed to prevent water from getting in, whether it be from a hose stream or mother nature. I was happy to see them applying water through a window, into the ceiling area, which is ideal”; this is a pat on the back to the crews, knowing how to correctly apply a stream. It happens a lot; a ladder truck high up in the air, flowing water to the roof (sometimes even peeling shingles off, and even funnier when it’s a fog nozzle, as the little droplets are breaking up before they hit the seat). Unless you’ve got an essential bon fire, with most of the roof gone, flowing water this way promotes lateral fire spread and is, in a sense, ineffective. If a fire is venting, let it vent. Another quote; “Good job by the crews on scene, aggressive searches were performed” seems to be another pat on the back.

Next, you are correct, ONE advantage of a smooth bore/ straight tip is reach and penetration. However, there are more. They maintain better interior visibility and disturb less, allow for lower pump discharge pressures, have more penetrating power, and less steam conversion as well. This would have been beneficial in case a line was moved back to the interior, as you said. For your refresher, I suggest you re-read your essentials book starting around page 723. Also, in the Fire Officers Handbook of Tactics, I suggest you check out pages 98-99. Next, check pages 228-233 of Street Smart Firefighting. Finally, go to your station library and blow the dust off the Aerial Apparatus, Driver-Operator Handbook. After the cloud settles, go to page 209-212, there’s a great “fog vs solid stream” section.

To sum it up, I’ve never said a smooth bore is the answer for everything, you said I did though. I’ve used both types, in offensive and defensive operations, and they all have their place. However, WE, the RFD, currently are a “fog nozzle” department. And the reason, simply, is training and education. This issue is being addressed currently by our engine company committee (which is made up of some of the finest & most aggressive engine officers in the city), and I know full well that you’ll see some smooth bores in use after training kicks off in November or so. I don’t fault you for criticizing, I feel sorry for you, in that you’ve become part of the band-wagon. See you at ladder ops training, “Rescue“Ranger.

Stay safe….
Silver - 09/23/09 - 16:29

DANG! Get you some of that! lol
CTK - 09/24/09 - 01:58

Smooth Vs. Fog. Round 257. LOL
gen3fire - 09/24/09 - 14:36

I’ll let you stand on your pedestal, Jeff. Sometimes there is just no reasoning with some folks who just don’t get it. However, I suggest very strongly you rethink your actions next time you suggest that another person needs to read a book. Apparently the department also thinks I’m a little more proficient than you at reading a book.
RescueRanger - 09/24/09 - 18:40

I read this blog almost daily, there are some good conversations and bad. Smooth Bore vs. Fog is always gonna be a BIG contrversy. I think we all in wake county and surrounding areas are lucky. My point being EVERYONE WENT HOME. Yes there may be problems but as long as everyone goes home does it really matter how the fire got put out as long as it is safe and effective. Stay Safe and Buckle Up..
DM - 09/24/09 - 18:58

Congrats, you got promoted to Driver. I haven’t slept well ever since the test results came back. Let me ask you a silly question; doesn’t make much sense to take a promotion, only to take a pay cut for more headaches, does it? Sorry attempt on your part at a personal jab, if you ask me.

A little unknown fact about me; I’d be happy riding the back-step for the rest of my career. I come from a mentality where it’s great to have members that are seasoned back-step guys. Besides, it’s punks like you that need guys like me to make them shine. Quite frankly, I don’t mind doing that either, my shoulders are pretty strong.

Stay safe…
Silver - 09/24/09 - 22:56

Burton, Ronnie W….you out there??
Silver - 09/24/09 - 22:57

DJ (Email) (Web Site) - 09/24/09 - 22:58

Unfortunately, an amazing twist this blog has taken, isn’t it? Didn’t have to be this way “Bro”, but it’s obvious your personal feelings and disgust for me are interfering with your ability to think logically.

A simple post, giving an “Oorah” to the guys and just suggesting straight tip usage, and now it has resulted in jabs. It’s a darn shame I tell ya’....

Time to lock this one up and move on???
Silver - 09/24/09 - 23:06

Jabs are one thing. Cheap shots are another. If you want to argue about what the better nozzle, fire truck design, or soda flavor is, then I guess the ‘identities’ are OK. But cheap shots at an individual? Own up to them. To do otherwise is an example of NCAA- No Class At All (some of you probably thought I was going to say NBAA!)

Better yet, leave ‘em out. This ain’t the place for it. Besides, what does THAT say about us around these parts? Mike has a good site for us to use, if we only would use it without getting personal. When one person does something stupid like that, it makes us all look bad to the world. Yes, the world. Becasue if people form Europe and Australia read my blog, then I am sure there are lots of international eyes upon us on this site.

We all have our personal opinions about what we do. You guys have your personal opinions about tactics and such, just as I have my own opinions about taking care of people. But if you don’t agree with me, fine. I won’t lose a bit of sleep over it. And I won’t talk about your mama, or take some other cheap shot. Besides, it’s not my fault if you are wrong and un-enlightened.

So in summary, if you want to talk about something, anything, I am sure Mike does not mind seeing that. And we all don’t have to agree. And I am sure that a little arguing back and forth is healthy (as well as entertaining). But if you can do no better than to take a cheap shot at a ‘brother’ (ain’t ya’ll the ones that keep preaching about a brotherhood of firefighters? ‘Brothers’ don’t do that kind of crap), then go over to TWD and have at it. Or just take a deep breath, back away from the computer, and go have a beer.

Who said that? I said that. 9-ECHO-1 to some. DJ to many.
DJ (Email) (Web Site) - 09/24/09 - 23:30

Everybody knows who you gus work for. The line about my views do not reflect blah blah… is BS. Perception is reality. What you type is what people all over wake county, NC and the US read. Think about that next time you are on here representing your department.
Concerned brother - 09/25/09 - 04:14

[ Let’s lock this thread and take a breather. ]
Legeros - 09/25/09 - 06:12