09/16/09 62 W, 1 I - + 9 - 11 The Smell of a New Fire Station

There's nothing like it. That's Apex Public Safety Station 4 at 1615 E. Williams St., which was dedicated yesterday. Watch the AFD web site for ceremony photos. Firefighters move into the combination fire, police, and EMS facility on Monday. It'll house an engine and ladder company, along with other equipment.

Will both companies be staffed?
Silver - 09/17/09 - 12:51

Yes- 3 people on each company… Station 3 will now be only a single company station running L3 (now L1).

The new line up:

Station 1: E1
Station 2: E2
Station 3: L3, Battalion 1
Station 4: E4, L4

All units except Battalion 1 (obviously) will be staffed with at least 3 full-time personnel. There are 2 part time employees left per shift.
Bob P. - 09/17/09 - 17:23

What kind of staffing do either of the rescue companies have?
Guest - 09/18/09 - 14:17

Stoplights? Really? Wow. I just wish departments would spend the money on driver training instead of wasting it on useless stuff like that. You have no business driving any type of vehicle if you pay so little attention that you plow into a door.
RescueRanger - 09/18/09 - 16:41

Not to stir the pot, but what’s the purpose of staffing two trucks at station 4. It would seem the majority of calls in Apex are around station 1 and 3.
Joey - 09/18/09 - 20:02

I like the stop lights. You can talk all the junk you want to about them, but if you have driven one of the new ladder towers with the wide buckets, then you know that you can not see the door unless you roll your window down and put out your head out of it. How safe is that? Also, how many times has a truck been pulling out of a multi-company house and the wrong door gets closed as the truck is pulling out. I know that when the radio was keyed up in the building that the door would come down on you with no warning. That has happened to me at least twice while driving the old EEI engine that used to be engine 1. If the lights keep the doors from getting hit just once, they have paid for themselves! As far as the number of companies in the house, when I was a member at Apex, the largest number of industrial occupancies was in that area. So the tower running out of that station makes sense. I bet if you look at placement for the ISO rating, that is probably the best choice for two companies right now. I know that ISO recommended that back in the 1985 visit and every visit since.
Donaldson - 09/18/09 - 23:25

Disclaimer: The views I post here are my own views and opinions and do not represent any company, employer, or affiliation that I may have. If you find anything I say offensive or if you have a problem with my posts, then I encourage you to post a rebuttal argument, or come to me personally.
Donaldson (Email) - 09/18/09 - 23:28

Photos of grand opening, as well as updated apparatus placement and shift assignments, have now been posted to Apex FD’s web site, http://www.apexvfd.org
NCFirewolf (Email) (Web Site) - 09/19/09 - 07:31

Donaldson, No, better driver training would pay for itself because not only would it prevent doors from getting ran into but also prevent all these rollovers and other preventable accidents. Better driver training would teach the driver to fully walk around the apparatus before jumping in and zooming off. During the walk around the driver would see the door halfway open. If you have people closing doors on apparatus as they are pulling out that’s an entirely different issue that needs to be addressed and the stoplight would not prevent that anyway. Same goes for the mike being keyed causing the door to close. Those stoplights are nothing more than a bandaid for complacency.
RescueRanger - 09/19/09 - 10:32

For right now, we still have to swap people to the rescues at both Stations 1 and 4. Donaldson is right about the ISO reasons for the two company placement at #4. We are getting there… be patient… we are still growing!
Bob P. - 09/19/09 - 10:41

anything, and I mean anything that allows us to do our job safer is fine by me. If the lights can let you know if the door is fully up then why is that a problem? These are things that add to our safety, not replace any form of training or experience. RescueRanger, you talk about “preventable accidents” no “accident” is preventable, that’s why they’re called accidents. You talk about doing a 360 degree walkaround of your rig before every run? Really? I guess you don’t have chiefs breathing down your neck about response times then. Also I don’t know for sure, but if the rigs have openers in them then these lights are ideal. They let the driver know that the door is all the way up and NOT moving back down.

But then again I guess better training would prevent all injuries and incidents so we wouldn’t needs Heads Up Displays, PASS devices, turnout gear, helmets or rigs all together huh?

Way to be progressive AFD!
CFP 7021 (Email) - 09/19/09 - 11:50

I agree with you CFP about anything that allows us to do our job safer IS awesome. Its nice to see that there are some cool and neat things coming out everyday for us to use in the fire service..only thing is, they arent that cheap. We had those little clicker things in all of our trucks until they started to get old and worn out or stuck in the pressed position and as the truck would leave out of the station, the door would be on the way down and come out with it. A stop light would be nice in every bay but its not the only option.

We are now made to have 1 firefighter on the outside of the rig to assure the bay door is up, and presses the button on the wall at the bay to make sure the door comes back down only when the unit is all the way out. This doesnt take no more than a few seconds. As long as you have firefighters that get dressed quickly and you make this a part of your daily routine, the time lost on the response would be hardly even noticed.

I love getting in the big red truck and haulin a$$ but we all know that if it doesnt get there then we cant do what we are supposed to do. A few extra seconds isnt going to hurt anything. Im glad to see that Apex is finally done with the station and i cant wait to get by and see it. Apex has been doing great things from what i can see on the outside looking in. If those stop lights cost 2,000 a piece….if u got it spend it baby!

Stay Safe!
CTK - 09/19/09 - 17:41

Shev, sorry, but I have to disagree with your statements about accidents. I’m willing to wager 95% of all “accidents” are preventable from one side or the other. Ex: I don’t trust my life to a stoplight. Even if the light is green for me I will still do a quick scan of both directions from the side just to verify that all traffic is stopped. This is done in any vehicle I drive. Pay attention to people sitting first in line at a stoplight. When their light turns green they just go without even looking to either side. That’s called trusting their life to a stoplight.
And yes, I do visually see every side of the rig before I jump in the seat. Why? Because that’s what a driver is supposed to do!! Does that mean I actually start and one side and do a complete walkaround? No. But if you walk towards the rig you can usually cover 3 sides right off and check the fourth with a matter of a few steps before hopping in. Do we have Chiefs breathing down our necks about response times? NO AND YOU SHOULDN’T EITHER!! Our Chief is doing his best to get us to SLOW DOWN!!
Sorry, but I doubt there is anything anyone can say to convince me those silly stoplights are anything more than a bandaid for complacency and lack of driver training. Proof about the lack of driver training is Raleigh will have a 6 month fire academy but a 2 week course to become promoted to asst. driver. Explain how you can adequately train an individual with some having no experience driving anything larger than a family car to drive fire apparatus and teach them how to pump at a working fire in 2 weeks?
RescueRanger - 09/19/09 - 17:45

Ranger, you cant train someone to be a driver in two weeks. But if a promotion is in the near future for my self or anyone else i know….if u wait two weeks to get your ducks lined up, then in my opinion you should be the last one even thought of for that promotion. We train EVERY DAY, hell some of us do it in our sleep running scenerios through our heads. If someone wants to drive, why wait till the last minute to train for it. But i guess thats up to the individual wanting the position. We dont learn how to fight fire in 6 months neither…you learn the basics and most of what u can do to save your tail if stuff goes bad quick, YOU learn on the job, riding that rig, training, being put in a situation and having to act on it. Thats what prepares us to become a better firefighter. If i was going to be considering promotion to asst. driver then i would be at that pump pannel or asking to drive somewhere to get that experience wWwWaaaYYY before promotion time. It shows personal interest in that position and what is expected instead of the dolla bill. Same goes for a leadership role. I learn by how my leaders have taught me in the past and present. Im not elligible to drive yet let alone be promoted to captain but when the time comes, i cant say that i havent prepared myself for it.

Ive said in the past about how Raleigh may do something that may not work for how smaller municipalities do something and same goes the other way around. But i dont really see why someone would consider putting a firefighter in the driver seat with only a 2 week course.
CTK - 09/19/09 - 19:24

Ok here we go! The “first class firefighter school” or driver operator school, that RFD has for 2 weeks covers the same material in class that any other department or firefighter would go through. They meet the requirements from NCFRC for “driver ops pumps and EVD! Anybody that is from RFD knows that this school is not like the old days when it was a give me promotion! They first have to be signed off by their station Captains on their first class guidelines. They have to already be going through the training at their stations, the school is just to certify them and fine tune them on what they are fixing to do! again the basics! Their on the street training will never stop! Hey don’t forget they HAVE to pass the pre-test before they can take the class and they have to pass the final test and practices to get promoted to back up driver.

And for those that don’t know or have forgotten there has been people not allowed to take the class and not past the finals and have to wait because they were not ready! So stop talking Sh!t about us! there are plenty of departments out there that throw plenty of people in the driver seat with way less training then our people and don’t even try or think they need to take a driver ops calls! Famous quote from one of my ex chiefs “ you don’t need that class we can teach you what you need to know”! Anyway training never ends in the fire service you can learn something new every day! you just got to be willing to learn! Y’all stay safe and wear your belts! J
Jason Lane - 09/20/09 - 13:44

RescueRanger, we will have to agree to disagree. Having been in a station that is 15 feet off the road (AKA Apex Station 1) I see the benefit to these lights. I did not say that they should replace training, but should be used WITH additional training. Do they cost money, sure they do, but so does Chevrons on the back of firetrucks. You could argue that anyone who hits the back of a fire apparatus on the side of the road should not be driving. I would agree, but people do it every day. That is why we train on blocking and putting chevrons and other precautions into place. There is only one way to see if the lights truly work, time will tell.

As I said before, at Apex Station 1, if you key up the mic while in the building, the door comes down. Happened to me twice. Sure that is another problem, but let me throw this out there, if the light was there and turned red, I could stop the truck and the door would hit the truck, stop, and go back up. The light would then turn green and the truck can respond. There would be no damage to the door, very little to the truck, and most of all, the truck responds! I give props to Apex for trying something new. Sure some folks will think it looks silly and is a waste of money… Time will tell. If they don’t have one drive through in ten years, then I would say that the lights + training on how to use them would be working. Again, time will tell…

Congrats to Apex for a great looking and well planned fire station. Congrats to the new employees starting their 30 + year careers. Congrats to those that got promoted with the new station. Apex is growing and they are doing a great job meeting the needs of their community, my community. Great job guys and gals, keep up the great work, be safe!

Disclaimer: The views I post here are my own views and opinions and do not represent any company, employer, or affiliation that I may have. If you find anything I say offensive or if you have a problem with my posts, then I encourage you to post a rebuttal argument, or come to me personally.
Donaldson (Email) - 09/20/09 - 17:47

Yup Matthew, happened to me quite a fwe times as well. Key up the radio, door comes back down!! By the way, the term “crash” is the preferred terminology, not “accident”....just sayin’.

Thanks for the run down Bobby P., which apparatus will be going where? Also, since the ladder will now have a dedicated crew, will Apex now have a focus on truck guys doing truck work, and engine guys doing engine work?
Silver - 09/20/09 - 20:31

Lane thanks for clearing that up. I figured that the big city was a little better than throwing a guy in the seat with just 2 weeks of training. Raleigh has been a trend setter to alot of departments around the county and state. At our department we go through extensive driver training even if you have your D/O pumps and aerials. Thats just paper. But no matter how much time youve spent training or driving one day you will wreck. Backing into a mail box, hitting a car, car hitting you or a uh oh and have a big one. We all have to be cautious and never depend 100% on equipment that is suppose to work(doors,stoplights,GPS etc)

“Congrats to Apex for a great looking and well planned fire station. Congrats to the new employees starting their 30 + year careers. Congrats to those that got promoted with the new station. Apex is growing and they are doing a great job meeting the needs of their community, my community. Great job guys and gals, keep up the great work, be safe!” Couldnt agree more Donaldson

Silver..“crash” and/or “collision” is the new terms that replace the A word. Accidents are always preventible .Thank you for that Child Passenger Safety Seat 101.
CTK - 09/21/09 - 09:44

Silver- The apparatus will be the following:
E1- 2002 HME
R1- Former R3 1992 International/ Hackney
E2- 2005 Contender
E3 (Reserve)- Former E4 2000 E-One
L3- 2004 E-One 75’ stick
E4- Former E3 2002 Spartan/ Quality
L4- Former L3 2006 E-One 95’ platform
R4- Former R1 1995 HME
As far as "truck company operations" go… I can’t answer that officially as of right now… Since we now have a dedicated 3 person company on L4, we can hopefully start in that direction.
Bob P. - 09/21/09 - 09:56

Updated apparatus numbers / station locations are on AFD’s web site. You may need to empty your browser cache / reload the page to see the updates though. Still missing a few things like the Chief’s car, but I think I at least got all the big trucks where they’re supposed to be now :)
NCFirewolf (Email) (Web Site) - 09/22/09 - 00:08

Sta 1
E1 – 2002 HME
R1 – 1992 International/Hackney (tech rescue)
R2 – 2002 Ford (dive rescue)
Tanker 1 – 2003 Sterling
B1 – 2007 Ford

Sta 2
E2 – 2005 Pierce
Tanker 2 – 1991 E-One
B2 – 2002 Ford

Sta 3
L3 – 2004 E-One
E3 – 2000 E-One
Bat 1 – 2005 Ford
Mobile Command 1 – 1990 Chevy
USAR Trailer

Sta 4
E4 – 2002 Quality
L4 – 2006 E-One
R4 – 1995 HME
Roster - 09/22/09 - 05:59

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