12/24/11 467 W, 3 I - + 13 - 2 Raleigh Mack to Burlington in 1979?

Doing some housecleaning today. Found this document from a few years ago and apparently never blogged about.  (If you haven't figured it out, Mr. Blogger uses this forum as much as a personal archive as anything else.) Did the Raleigh Fire Department give a Mack CF pumper to Burlington back in the day? Read on...

December 2006

Original question to Mike Legeros, posed by an apparatus buff: "When I was in Burlington, the firefighters told me that they had acquired a Mack CF pumper from Raleigh a number of years ago. According to legend, the Mack was bought by the Raleigh Fire Department, but never placed in service. It was either given to the Burlington Fire Department, or sold for a very reasonable price. It is a pretty standard Mack CF pumper, except that it has a non-synchronized manual transmission. One of the Burlington firefighters said that the transmission was the reason it wasn't accepted by Raleigh. And that's why they let it go, after an apparatus accident depleted Burlington's fleet. Is this a story you have heard about over the years? Were the firefighters accurate in what they related?

Yours Truly passed the question along to Burlington Fire Department Historian Stuart Cozart, who provided this answer: "From what I understand, the below 1949 American LaFrance pumper was the truck that was wrecked. The accident in fact did wipe out, for all practical purposes, the operational fleet. The LaFrance was housed at Station 2 on Webb Ave." Click to slightly enlarge:


The reports are not complete, but I understand that the 1979 CF Mack, with the un-synchronized transmission, was purchased through Raleigh Fire Department. Not sure if it was a demo, or if Raleigh allowed Burlington to piggy back on an order. The 1979 Mack (chassis number CF685F2068) served as Engine 2 for many years. It is now in reserve as Engine 7 and is shown below in front of Station 5." Click to slightly enlarge:

Notes Raleigh Fire Department Historian Mike Legeros: Raleigh had a 1978 Mack CF on its roster, chassis CF685F2004, and a 1981 Mack CF, chassis 1M1A125C5BM002175. However, neither a 1979 nor 1980 Mack CF served Raleigh. Nor was any other engine purchased those two years. Alas, he doesn't recall if he's checked the city minutes from those years, to see if the 1979 Mack is noted in there. (He's also still suffering from that mysterious malady that's causing him to talk in the third-person some times.) Click to slightly enlarge:


Stuart ended his answer with a note that Mack, while beloved and respected, was planned to be sold at auction in 2007. Engine 5 was due to be replaced, and the current Engine 5 would be placed in reserve. Shown is what was the current Engine 2 in December 2006.

Engine 5 is now a quint, and the old E5 is E7 and is parked at station 5 as a reserve.
charlie - 12/24/11 - 20:51

A couple of things lead me to believe that this Mack CF was not from Raleigh. First, the Federal Q in the front of the cab. I believe the Raleigh deliveries of the era had an electronic siren housing, and that the Qs were a later retrofit, done when new Code 3 light bars were added. Secondly, I don’t remember any Mack CFs for Raleigh having driver side full height compartments. Most Raleigh CFs were delivered with ladders on both sides. Third, note that there are ladders mounted horizontally above the hose bed, indicating high side compartments probably on the officer’s side, a sure non-Raleigh spec. And lastly, I believe most Raleigh CFs were delivered with two booster reels, not one as this model has.

I think we have a fire urban legend here guys…..
harkey (Email) (Web Site) - 12/24/11 - 23:51

Jeff, I noticed those high compartments as well. But they look like later additions to me. Or maybe the whole body was replaced at one point? Check out Lee’s earlier photo of that rig: http://www.flickr.com/photos/leewilson/5..

But then there’s this pic, http://www.flickr.com/photos/leewilson/5..

Legeros - 12/25/11 - 00:04

Looking at the photo, the back end looks to be from Ward. After 1975 Mack moved the CF line from Allentown to Mancugie, PA. At this time many FDs started buying a chassis and having another manufacturer add a rear body. This looks to be a Mack/Ward due to the cabinets size, shape and hardware. Being a 79, thats when Ward moved in on rear bodies. Also, this would scenerio would also apply if the truck was refirbed, as Ward and Pierce did must of that work. As for the hose reel, it most likely was deleted due to the large ladder on top.
Henshaw (Email) (Web Site) - 12/29/11 - 15:22

Obviously E-2 was refurbished since there are before and after pictures.
Rescue Ranger - 12/30/11 - 09:38

That’s what I wasn’t sure about. That the earlier picture showed a Mack body, but the later picture (at the top of the post) showed a refurb.
Legeros - 12/30/11 - 09:57

Remember back when the actual Mack salesman was a factory direct person. As someone eluded to, Mack was having a problem with delivery times on vehicles so we heard the salesmen would sometimes enter an order for a unit to get in into their system under a prospective customer’s name with the hopes that when it was ready, the customer would take the unit to save on delivery time but if not, it went on the market to be sold to another customer. This way the saleman got his pay sooner.
BARRY SLAGLE - 11/23/12 - 19:35

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