08/19/08 131 W - + 18 - 12 New Numbering Scheme for Wake Forest Fire

As you've likely noticed if listening, the Wake Forest Fire Department has adopted a new numbering scheme for their units. This replaces the 600 series scheme in fall 2007. Listed below are old unit and new unit numbers. Dead horse watchers, commence precautionary alerts...

Station 1

Old - New
Engine 613 - Pumper 1
Rescue 619 - Rescue 1
Ladder 610 - Ladder 1
Brush 617 - Brush 1
Brush 647 - Brush 4
Utility 616 - Utility 1
Air 626 - Air 1
ATV 618 - ATV 1

Station 2

Old - New
Engine 623 - Pumper 2
Engine 643 - Pumper 4
Brush 627 - Brush 2

Station 3

Old - New
Engine 633 - Pumper 3
Brush 637 - Brush 3


Old - New
Chief 100 - Car 1
Deputy Chief 101 - Car 2
Deputy Chief 102 - Car 3
Battalion Chief 103 - Battalion 1
Battalion Chief 104 - Battalion 1
Battalion Chief 105 - Battalion 1
Training Chief 106 - Car 6


So how many “Ladder 1” and “Rescue 1” units are in Wake County now?
harkey (Email) - 08/19/08 - 23:30

Curious why it’s Pumper 1, 2, 3 and not Engine.
screech - 08/20/08 - 00:03

Screech, the units are called Pumpers because they are Pumper/Tankers. An Engine does not have a jet dump. A Pumper/Tanker has a jet dump. Thats how I understood it to be. Not saying I agree with it, I actually am not too fond of calling it a Pumper, but hey, its just words.
Rat21 - 08/20/08 - 01:32

Who cares how many Ladders and Rescues and Engines have the number 1. When will Wake Forest ever run with Apex Engine 1, or Raleigh Ladder 1. If the call is that big, simply say, Wake Forest before your Engine one or Ladder one. Not that hard. Lets not beat the dead horse again people. Get over it.
waaaa - 08/20/08 - 01:35

It’s not that WF will run with Raleigh or Apex, but they do run with New Hope and there have been several times where they have been on scene with Eastern Wake or Durham Hwy, which all three have Engine/Pumper 1, so Jeff’s comment was warranted, your’s however, was not! Some people say it is easier for them to remember and if so, that’s fine. We are an ever changing world and we must all deal with it, whether we like it or not and most everyone knows where I stand on this issue, so I won’t go into it again. I see a problem in the area becoming larger everyday and there doesn’t appear to be any real relief in the near future and that problem is STAFFING! It doesn’t matter what you call the apparatus, if it doesn’t get out with a fully trained crew, IT DOESN’T MATTER!!!
Either way, keep the faith brothers and sisters and be safe!
Wayne - 08/20/08 - 12:05

Wow how many brush trucks does a municipality need?
Jay - 08/20/08 - 12:08

I’ll tell you who cares. The men and women who sit at the consoles downtown trying to figure out who it was that just called asking for something. When all you hear is “Engine 1 to Raleigh can you (fill in the blank)” and you look at the status monitor and see that Fairview, Garner, Holly Springs, Durham Highway, New Hope, Apex, and Swift Creek are all on calls, you wonder with all the wonderful technology out there, why certain parts of the system are still living in 1979. Ever wonder why people beat dead horses? Because they stand for something that needs to be changed, but too many folks are comfortable just living with it dead or in 1979.
No No No - 08/20/08 - 19:04

Wow now I see why the county put in the number system years ago… Too bad not everyone wants to go by it.
Rauer - 08/20/08 - 21:50

And to add to No x3’s comments:

For those that are not familiar with how the radio system is structured in the county, the 911 folks have Operations (Ops talkgroups) numbers 1-12 for Fire, and Public Safety (PS talkgroups) numbers 13-39 (for multi-company, multi-agency responses) to use. Add to that Tri-Com, numerous outbound Dispatch talkgroups and the ever-ringing phones. Four folks to handle Raleigh Fire, Wake County EMS and Wake County Fire. They do not handle Cary Fire. (ECC folks can add/correct to this info please).

So take all that radio traffic on all those channels, and can you now see how having multiple (I’m not talking about just one or two, but over a dozen) of the same units named the same thing, and you’re asking for confusion, frustration, and the possibility of MISTAKES.

If we are ever unfortunate enough to suffer a huge tragic incident that warrants multiple investigations (like happened in Charleston next year), I will guarantee you two issues that will be mentioned that could have/should have been addressed and corrected (but were not): That the county Fire Departments do not operate with a comprehensive numbering system, and that no sequential alarm system exists for ordering additional equipment. (By the way, the second issue will be a topic for discussion on an upcoming Editor’s blog on FireNews.net).

Two serious items that don’t cost much (if anything) to fix and address before a tragedy.

EMS addressed this issue, and the world is still spinning.

And guess what, the EMS trucks now have big numbers on them, so you can tell who-is-whom on a big incident.

It’s not rocket surgery….

Yielding the soapbox that is shimmed up with rotting equine meat…...
harkey (Email) (Web Site) - 08/20/08 - 22:57

I spent 15 years in Wake County and the numbering scheme always frustrated me. Like No No No said, it’s nearly impossible to figure out who’s calling or who you’re talking to if you’re sitting at a console or if you’re on a multi-company scene. I have been in Franklin County for about 2 years now and I really like their numbering scheme. Each department has a numbering series and all apparatus and personnel from that station/department have a uniquely identifiable number. There are no duplicates in the entire county. Additionally, when anyone keys up the mic and states their designated number, all those listening know who’s talking, what department they’re from, if they’re a piece of apparatus or an officer or regular member. I’m sure there’s plenty of things we don’t do right up here, but the numbering scheme is right on.
Screech - 08/20/08 - 23:29

OK, OK, OK… (chasing the flies away from the corpse)

Actually, I have friends on both sides of this, and each side, well, they ain’t budgin’.

My $0.03 worth (again)…

It’s the department’s/chief’s decision as to what you call your engines, pumpers, ladders, trucks, brushes, rescues, utilities, or whatever. We don’t have a system, and there is apparently no way to do that…right now. And I guess there is a certain nostalgia for having your very own “ENGINE ONE”.

Imagine pulling up on a scene in your fire truck, and as you are getting off of the truck, someone starts taking shots at you. Sound unreasonable? As the folks out in Missouri about the chances of that happening. Everyone’s taking cover. Someone grabs their microphone and starts calling for help. But two things are at work here. First, in the excitement, they key the mike and start talking without waiting for the ‘beep-beep’ and the dispatcher manning TAC __ misses part of the transmission. Second, since it was a single department dispatch (maybe an EMS unit is coming), they’re in the ‘no other department is around’ mindset (Doesn’t happen you say? Just listen to the TAC channels any day of the week).

All the dispatcher hears is “ENGINE 1 TO CENTRAL ON TAC ___, SHOTS FIRED, FIREFIGHTERS DOWN”. Now, since Apex, Durham Highway, Fairview, Fuquay-Varina, Garner, and Holly Springs FDs are all on calls at that particular moment, with their respective ENGINE 1’s, the dispatcher has to track it down.

Sound far-fetched? Maybe, maybe not. Ten years ago who would have thought there would be things like “mobile meth labs”, secondary explosive device training, or even reading about firefighters and paramedics getting shot at as they arrive on scene?

If the current system (or non-system) is going to stay in place, then you guys need to ALWAYS announce your department name EVERYTIME you talk on the radio. That’s the only way you will guarantee that you will do it when it counts the most.

At the risk of upsetting some friends out there, I’ll end with this one-

“There are those who can see, but then there are those with vision”
DJ, 2008
DJ (Web Site) - 08/21/08 - 10:26

Oh, and sometimes they do leave the “TAC ___” out of the transmission, so that would cause the delay in locating.

However, if a dispatcher hears nothing but “191”, “251”, or something similar, guess what, they know who it was right then.
DJ (Web Site) - 08/21/08 - 10:29

(using a heavy duty fly swatter)....I still say it comes back to the “my sandbox” analogy. It’s not about what makes sense, or what would be better for the county system, or even safer for that matter, but what “I” want to do.

MY opinion, if you operate on the county system, you operate by THEIR rules. Since we’re stuck in the 70’s, I’m going to go put on some Hall & Oates and relax.

Stay safe…
Silver - 08/21/08 - 11:43

With No No No’s post in mind, the dispatchers can look at the screen and see with unit just keyed up. Example: GFE1-1 or NHE3-2 on the channel box. I can see if your busy down there where it might make it an issue though. Who calls Raleigh an just says Engine 1? Come one, if people are stuck in the 1970’s as Silver put it, then they all say “Garner” Engine 1 or “Apex” Engine 1 or “Fill in the blank” Engine 1 when they call. You never hear someone just say Engine 1 by itself. And I like Hall and Oates.
RichGirl - 08/22/08 - 11:31

and to add on, the county only has so much power over departments. Remember…. they are not county departments, they are private contractors. The county only can do so much. People need to remember that.
RichGirl - 08/22/08 - 11:33

Richgirl makes the very valid point that the FDs are private contractors to the county. However, although I would agree that many are still stuck in the 70s, there are some who leave off the from their ENGINE 1 or ENGINE 2. I have heard it seven times in the past two days.

Hall & Oates?

Geez. I’ll take Lynrd Skynrd over them…....
DJ - 08/22/08 - 16:04

seems like an easy fix to me….. tell all the depts. that get budget money from the county if they want to continue to get the money they have to follow the county numbering scheme.
firedriver - 08/22/08 - 16:32

Thank you!!
Silver - 08/22/08 - 20:30

Now there’s a concept. Take lessons from the feds. It works for them. Do it our way or do without our money.
DJ (Web Site) - 08/22/08 - 21:24

If going based on memory, but some time in the past 14 years I remember when I volunteered at WFD, that some departments went first responder before others because (our) chiefs said "if we don’t go to it, they will make us in the future". Now that is funny to me on how back then we were made to start running first responder, so why can’t they push the number system if it is such an issue. I am not going to comment much on this because we beat the $h!/ out of this one a while back. First the system is there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The departments through out the county are already numbered!!!!!!!! Some already use this system. #2 If it was such a big issue the county would implement it just like they have with other things, even though the fd are contracted private inc. they still are receiving county tax dollars, look at the gear, apparatus and required level of service to get you coin on!!!!!!Anyhow Stay Safe LOL EGH>
Jason Lane
Jason Lane - 08/22/08 - 21:25

It makes too much sense, it’ll never happen!! LOL
firedriver - 08/22/08 - 22:44

well then Silver and firedriver what happens if the county tells the departments that “they get there budget from the county, change or not get funded” and the departments say no. There has to be fire protection in these areas. The citizens and media would have a hay day knowing a fire department shut down due to lack of funding because they would not call there rigs something. Well now, we have a problem.
richgirl - 08/24/08 - 18:25

Actually what could/would/should happen is that the county take back the apparatus that they bought, money for salaries that they provide, and the gear that they bought and simply start a county dept. There’s a saying that goes something like “He who controls the money, controls the world.” The real issue with your scenario is that the depts would have to explain why they REFUSED to accept/enforce something that would help reduce the potential for firefighter injuries or deaths. Now before anyone wants to jump in my wagon about that statement, I say this: Read any NIOSH report and a leading contributing factor in the cases is COMMUNICATIONS! This also includes apparatus/personnel designations.
It still amazes me that so many people around here refuse to accept change. Are they really that ego driven or afraid?
Again, I say that it doesn’t matter what it is called, if it doesn’t have the trained staffing, then IT DOESN“T MATTER!
Stay safe
Wayne - 08/24/08 - 20:21

Wayne brings up a good point:

What about individual personnel accountability so that every individual assigned a radio (which should be everyone working at an incident) has a unique Radio ID?

And before someone goes and says, “well at communications, you can see which radio it is…..” Baloney. You can’t see that information in the field.

Raleigh Fire for years has had in place the 01, 02, 03, etc. designation for all their company riding positions. To my knowledge, the county units do not do this. I believe Cary does, but then again, if it’s the same system, it’s a duplication of the same units. (101, 102, 103,....)

If each station had a unique identification number, this could easily be addressed.
harkey (Email) - 08/24/08 - 20:41

Jeff the Cary FD system is as follows:

Engines: x01 – officer, x02 – engineer, x03-05 firefighters, where x is the engine number
Rescues, Trucks, Ladders: T-x1 – officer, T-x2 – engineer, T-x3-5 – firefighters where x is the unit number.

but you are right, as are most on this thread there’s still a dozen Engine 1’s and a dozen Battalion 1’s. The county can make you do it, but simply changing what’s in CAD and telling you to deal with it. Kind of like what happened on the EMS side. The weird thing on the fire side is having municipal departments who can kind of have their own deals. BUT if it came down to Raleigh Wake ECC coming out and saying… look this is how it’s going to be done and it’s written in whatever contract there is then that’s how it’s going to be. But it should be county wide, no matter who your dispatch system is, or who you talk to on a day to day basis. That includes Raleigh, Cary, Apex and anybody else that has their “own” communications system.
CFP 7021 (Email) - 08/24/08 - 21:06

I like hearing an Engine__ on the radio vs hearing just a unit number. Example: In other counties all you hear is 492 is enroute central. I do not want to try to keep up in my head what the code is to figure out if 492 is a Engine, Rescue or Tanker. I have seen these systems, and they seem confusing to me. I don’t care what the number scheme is as longe as any unit is associated with a unit type such as Engine 492 is enroute central. I do not understand everyone saying we are in the 70’s. As best as I can remember most departments current numbering scheme came in mid 90’s. I know that before that our trucks were numbered 4 for our county number followed by order they were bought or unit it replaced. We had units 40-49, they ranged from engines to brush trucks.

Is the numbering of trucks really a big issue. Once you arrive on the scene you should use NIMS descriptions as to what your function is on the scene or your geographic location. I do not see this as a big deal. A few weeks ago HS L-1, Apex L-1, and FV L-1 all were on the same scene with no confusion. We have had Cary Batt 1 and Apex Batt 1 on same scene before with no problems.

I may be blind but I do not see the problem. I see alot more problems in the county that need to be addressed before we bicker about what we call our units.

These thoughts are mine and mine alone- LTC
Apex Batt Chief - 08/24/08 - 21:47

Wayne pretty much said what I was thinking. What county department can operate without county funding? They say no to the money and they have to close the doors.

Apex Batt Chief-
You say you had three ladder 1’s on the same call. What if they were all operating aerial streams and someone saw one of the ladders about to flow water onto bystanders. In a hurry they key up the radio and say “ladder 1 shut down your master stream”. Do all 3 ladders shut down their master stream??
I’m glad you had no problems on your scene and that shows that everyone there was paying attention. It does set us up for problems, and this is a problem that can be taken care of BEFORE the call comes in.
I do agree that there are other problems in the county, we just happen to be talking about this one(again) for now.
firedriver - 08/24/08 - 22:46

If the county were to pull county money, then some of the departments would have to make nice with the county. Some of the municipal departments could thumb their nose. Sure, they could set up their own communication centers, but then we go back to the chaos of the 70s when everyone had their own dispatch point. Only I guess now they would need different dispatch channels, which would lead to more talk groups…

I don’t think (there I go thinking again) that saying “ENGINE 492” as opposed to “492” would be a big thing. The systems I am familiar with (and learned in about a week) included “ENGINE ___”, “LADDER ___”, “PARAMEDIC ___”, etc., in their nomenclature.

In addition to the obvious safety benefits to radio communications, there would be benefits in identifying apparatus on scene. Yes, most of the ladder units have the name of the department in big letters. But how many engines/pumpers have nothing but a big ‘1’, ‘2’, or ‘3’ on them? And some departments actually have more than one ladder unit, and some of those look alike. If they had a big ‘41’, ‘182’, ‘145’, or ‘229’, it would be easy to spot on an emergency scene from a distance. Me personally, I would like to see large numbers, at least 10” high, visible from all four sides of every emergency vehicle on scene (at least fire and EMS), that ‘matches’ the radio call sign.

But, until the decision is made on high to bring about such a change (and it would take some strong will to do it), we have to muddle on through with what we have.

At least we DID progress past ‘UNIT 1’, ‘UNIT 2’, ‘UNIT 3’, ‘UNIT 4’, etc.

Many can see, but only a few have vision.
DJ (Web Site) - 08/24/08 - 23:32

This conversation never ceases to amaze me. But, I’ll recommend anyone listen to the live dispatching of PG County, Maryland. They have an efficient numbering scheme in place, and you still use equipment designations as well (Engine 33, 3-3-1, 3-3-2, Tower Ladder 33, etc…).

I know someone is going to show their ignorance now by either saying “we don’t care how them there yankees do it” or “this isn’t PG county”. These types of responses are very typical in this area, as there are still a lot of people resistant to change. Ya’ know, I recall some other Chief who was resistant to change, and I’ll quote him; “this is the Charleston Fire Department, I don’t care how anyone else does things, this is Charleston”. We see the unfortunate circumstances of what happened there, let it be a learning experience that closed-mindedness can kill.

RIP Charleston 9, and all the others that have fallen victim to someone else’s ignorance…
Silver - 08/25/08 - 07:51

And wasn’t the CFD, at some point, an ISO 1 department?
DJ - 08/25/08 - 10:11

Having three Ladder 1’s on the scene is a fundamental flaw. Plain and simple.

BTW, I’ve never advocated a completely numeric only system. I do believe unit-type followed by a UNIQUE number is the way to go.

Props to Durham county for fixing their system….
harkey - 08/25/08 - 12:23

I volunteer in Gaston County, just west of Charlotte, we have the three digit system in place here and having been using it for at least the last 25 years. But recently, the firefighters association has allowed departments to remove the last digit of their apparatus number and state the type of apparatus along with their station number, such as station 30 would be Engine 30, Ladder 30 or whatever you wanted to call it. Only one department besides the city of Gastonia has gone to this numbering system.
Billy Lee (Email) - 08/25/08 - 12:40

The thing is people, THERE IS A COUNTY SYSTEM! USE IT! We already have one, why reinvent the wheel. Each station has its number. I love the fools that think there is not one. I also love the comments from those that have nothing at all to do with Wake “county” firefighting.
it stops - 08/26/08 - 08:36

Not speaking about Billy Lee, do appreciate the post.
it stops - 08/26/08 - 08:37

So in the “existing” system, what is the Station number for Knightdale Public Safety, and what are the station numbers for Eastern Wake Fire Rescue?

(I think you’ll find duplicate numbers)
harkey (Email) - 08/26/08 - 12:06

Then add a number to the end…. Wa La!
it stops - 08/26/08 - 12:11

Knightdale’s station # is 13

Eastern Wake’s is 38.
Beach (Email) - 08/26/08 - 12:34

“it stops”, I was a vollie for 12 years. I realize that one was used years ago (Apex was #4), but even though each county station has a number, there still isn’t a consistent numbering scheme for the entire county. Unless there is one huge fire station that has 5 ladders (all Ladder 1), 4 rescues (all Rescue 1), a few battalion chiefs (all Battalion 1) and a slew of engine comapnies (all Engine 1). I’m all for it; use the existing county numbers, come up with a numbering scheme for all apparatus, AND USE THEM ON THE AIR!!
Silver - 08/26/08 - 13:14

EW Sta.2 – 13
EW Sta.1 – 38
ewfd200 (Email) - 08/26/08 - 13:18

well how about for example,
fire dept. x has an engine 1
fire dept. x’s county station # is station 40

so fire dept. x’s engine 1 now becomes engine 401

why wouldn’t that work.
Gray - 08/26/08 - 13:37

That’s kind of how it works now with those departments that use it.

take falls. they are county station 21.

They have:
211 – Engine
212 – Engine
217 – Tanker
219 – Brush
210 – Utility

The system as I understood it was x1-x4 was engines, pumpers whatever. x5 was rescue/ladder. x6-8 were tankers. x9 brush trucks x0 were utility or chiefs.

You could do something similar. The only problem is that there are departments where you have 2 brush trucks in the same station (which is crazy). There have been many systems discussed here in the past and there are many ways to do it. What basically needs to happen is to have somebody with some gumption to step up at the county level and say, here this is how it is, this is what your trucks will be called and dispatched as. but that’s not going to happen any time soon.
CFP 7021 (Email) - 08/26/08 - 16:45

Nah!!!! What fun would it be to have everyone give up their sandbox to build one giant sandbox that EVERYONE could play in?

Okay, on to the serious side. I think many of us here realize the problem, but aren’t in the positions to really effect the change necessary. The real question is…. How do we convince the ones that CAN change the system to change it? Like most of us have said, the SYSTEM is the easy part of the equation, the real problem is fixing the PEOPLE who have control over the system.

“Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it!”

Just think about it folks.
Wayne - 08/26/08 - 17:15

I agree with Apex Batt. Chief. There are other things to worry about that the stupid #s. The majority of people out there probably like there own Engine 1 or Ladder 1. And it is not that freakin hard to say Fuquay Engine 1, or Apex Ladder 1, etc.
FireDriver you use a bad analogy. If someone saw a ladder fixing to flow on bystanders, think about the extra time it will take that person to figure out which unit it is versus taking that same time to call out “fill in the blank” Ladder 1. You can sit here all day long and come up with “What If’s”.
WTF!!! - 08/26/08 - 18:21

I agree with Apex Batt. Chief. There are other things to worry about THAN the stupid #s.
WTF!!! - 08/26/08 - 18:27

WTF- You’re right, we can sit here and what if all day. That is how we fix alot of problems before they happen. My crew spends alot of time “what ifing”(read thinking) while we’re out and about.
Going back to the previous scenario, if that truck had a big 123 (or whatever number you want to use) on the side of it one would not have to think at all about who the truck belonged to.
firedriver - 08/26/08 - 20:14

“WTF”; I agree, there are bigger things we should worry about, like grammar for one and the use of the word “fixing”.
Silver - 08/26/08 - 20:27

[ Editorial note. For the benefit of new readers, the letters WTF are an abbreviation for “where’s the fire?” ]
Legeros - 08/26/08 - 20:29

From someone who’s been at meetings about this with “people that have control over the system”, this blog sounds just like the meetings. There are those who have strong convictions that needs to be changed, and those are just as determined that there are more important things and they aren’t changing. End result….well, everybody knows.
Ben There - 08/27/08 - 07:33

Like brother Silver said, you’re right there are bigger things to work on in this county. Things like staffing, training, and common fireground procedures/operations but why not start with the easiest and cheapest things first. I mean really, what’s cheaper and has shown to improve firefighter safety…..COMMUNICATIONS (which is part of the numbering system… LESS CONFUSION)! The other stuff is going to cost more and take a little longer to fix but we can try to overcome some of that stuff by increasing the amount of STAFFED (that means a MINIMUM of 3 trained personnel)units dispatched on calls and following a common operational manual. Either way, we will all continue to do the best we can with what we can because….that’s just what we do.
Wayne - 08/27/08 - 08:24

Hey DJ… “Hall and Oates” ??? Now you’re showing your age!! ...Count me in on the Lynyrd Skynyrd (the correct spelling for all the vocabulary buffs).

Mike – post that old document (copy) with the original numbering system that was adopted by the Wake County Firemen’s Association in the 70’s. It may be interesting for everyone to review.

I’ve been active in the Wake Co. fire service for only a few years now and trust me, numbering system changes will remain voluntary unless specified in the Wake County contracts with the individual corporations (which is coming up for review soon). The last contract review and revisions were in 1998-99 and it was a real “bear.” However, it is also the point when the “First Responder” service requirement was enacted county wide via the updated contracts. So, given the past, and if it truly a significant issue, a new numbering scheme can be incorporated into new contract revision discussions. Thanks and be safe!!
A.Rich - 08/27/08 - 22:49

AC, ‘twas I that suggested Hall and Oates…
Silver - 08/28/08 - 00:22

Yeah, it was Silver. I don’t think I ever heard (or wanted to listen to) Hall and Oates on the original WQDR (before they country-tized it) or the now missed sucessor, WRDU.

Anyway, you’re right AC. Any kind of change, especially where the fire service is concerned, is a real bear. And usually, the way I have always seen any kind of beneficial change come to the fire service, as always been through some sort of legislation, whether at the local, state, or federal level.
DJ (Email) - 08/28/08 - 07:37

That’s just crazy-talk to me…..
Silver - 08/28/08 - 11:45

If eastern wake station 2 is #13, then why are Knightdale trucks 13x ??
Question - 08/28/08 - 17:15

How do you figure in Raleigh and Cary. Each station does not have a seperate county number. So Raleigh and Cary station 4 sould interfere with Apex Station 4.
Another Question - 08/28/08 - 19:42

Here’s the original numbering scheme document, from many moons ago: http://www.legeros.com/ralwake/photos/we..
Legeros - 08/28/08 - 19:56

Here’s our proposed Wake scheme from just about a year ago (scroll down for complete scheme)

harkey (Email) (Web Site) - 08/28/08 - 23:05

Thanks Jeff. Sorry for the “dated” accusation Dale. The old WQDR would never play Hall and Oates…

Anyway, the old numbering system used to be relational for FD, PD, and EMS in most jurisdictions and it worked well (see Mike’s link above for the FD system). Raleigh was omitted. However, some FDs elected to use the E-1, E-2, format.

Some examples:
Wake Forest “6” – PD 600 (WFPD dispatch), 601, 602, 603, etc. FD 61, 62, 63, 64 etc. EMS 671, 672, 673, 681(crash unit).
(Yep, we used to have “rescue squads” and many FDs did not perform extrication until the late 80s)

Rolesville “15” – PD 1501, 1502, etc. FD 151, 152, 153
Zebulon “9” – PD 901, 902, 903, etc. FD 91, 92, 93, etc. EMS 971, 972, 973, 981(crash unit)
A.Rich - 08/28/08 - 23:28

Good morning everybody!

I´m reading the discussion since the beginning of the thread. And for me, a Paramedic and voluntary FF from Germany, it is confusing. I visited Raleigh last year – because some of my wife´s relatives are living there – and took a ride with Wake EMS, to see if there are any differences to our system. I think it´s a good way to use City – Type – Number, so everybody knows who´s talking. To use numbers for every station is nice way, but who wants to learn all the numbers?

The German is on one hand much more difficult, on the other hand easier. More difficult, because we have a lot of more types of vehicles. Everybody has to say the name of the city, then station (if more than one station exists in the town) and then the number for the type of the vehicle. Confusing? Here´s an example.

We take Giessen as the city. So the engine of Giessen´s station 1 is Giessen 1/44. The engine of the town Hungen would is Hungen 44.

So, you don´t have top learn number of stations, you have to learn type numbers. Here´s the complete scheme of the types:

01 – chief
02 – deputy chief 03 – chief of ECC
04 – free (local request)
05 – “
06 – “
07 – “
08 – “
09 – radio control
10 – command car
11 – command vehicle (small)
12 – command vehicle (big)
13 – communictaion vehicle
14 – communictaion vehicle
15 – motorcycle
16 – car
17 – vehicle to bring additional personell to the scene
18 – “
19 – “
20 – small engine or tanker
21 – small tanker/pumper (3 FF)
22 – big tanker/pumper (6 FF)
23 – combined tanker/pumper and rescue truck
24 – big tanker (1300 gallons)
25 – big tanker (1600 gallons)
26 – big tanker (more than 1600 gallons)
27 – extinguishing powder vehicle
28 – foam tanker
29 – tanker
30 – ladder with basket (100 ft.)
31 – ladder with basket (60 ft.)
32 – ladder with basket (40 ft)
33 – ladder (100 ft)
34 – ladder (60 ft)
35 – ladder (50 ft)
36 – aerial platform
37 – aerial ladder
38 – telescopic platform
39 – ladder
40 – engine with hazmat apparatus
41 – engine without a tank
42 – engine with tank (158 gallons)
43 – engine with tank
44 – engine with tank (more than 317 gallons)
45 – engine with portable fire pump
46 – combined engine / rescue truck
47 – small engine with portable pump
48 – small engine with portable pump and tank
49 – engine
50 – rapid intervention vehicle
51 – small rescue truck
52 – heavy rescue truck
53 – crane
54 – small hazmat truck
55 – big hazmat truck
56 – respirator / radioprotection unit
57 – floodlight unit
58 – water rescue unit
59 – utility truck
60 – 61 – hose truck (3330 ft)
62 – hose truck (6660 ft)
63 – 64 – container truck (with crane)
65 – container truck
66 – container truck
67 – container truck
68 – container truck (for hazmat)
69 – 70 – radiation gauge unit
71 – truck
72 – utility truck
73 – decontamination unit (for apparatus)
74 – decontamination unit (for persons)
75 – radiation recon unit
76 – “
77 – 78 – fire boat
79 – rescue boat
80 – emergency physician
81 – Mobile Intensive Care Unit 82 – emergency physician
83 – ambulance (ALS unit)
84 – “
85 – “
86 – “
87 – “
88 – “
89 – 90 – 91 – BLS-unit
92 – “
93 – “
94 – “
95 – “
96 – “
97 – vehicle with 4 stretchers
98 – “
99 – 100/01 – EMS supervisor
Dennis (Email) - 08/29/08 - 07:28

Now THAT is a numbering system! And talk about an interesting e-mail domain, Dennis!!
Legeros - 08/29/08 - 07:29

Silver, check this out. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/f..
silvers friend - 08/29/08 - 17:06

#26 ‘eh? Not too bad, I stand corrected. Although I still think it’s a reflection of the weaker educational system “in this here state”, lol….j/k, relax everyone….
Silver - 08/29/08 - 23:29

Mike, what do you mean with “talk about an interesting e-mail domain”?
Dennis (Email) - 08/30/08 - 06:06

Silver- the proper term we use “in this here state” is not ‘fixing’, it is ‘fixinto’, as in ‘fixinto go to work’. It is a Southern verb meaning ‘preparing to complete the designated task’.

Dennis- I think what he means by email domain is “jessica-hahn.de”. Given the geographical distance, it may not mean much over there, however, around here Jessica Hahn is remembered as the secretary that was involved in a scandal that helped bring down the television preacher Jim Bakker. Go to this url to get more- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Hah..
DJ (Email) - 08/30/08 - 08:26

Hehe. No, that´s not the meaning of my domain. It´s the domain of my wife. And before we married her last name was Hahn, her first name is Jessica. So, that´s all. But interesting to get told who else Jessica Hahn is.
Dennis (Email) - 08/30/08 - 11:49

It was a big story way back when. Bakker had built a large religious corporation, essentially, and had is own TV Network and everything. It was called ‘PTL’. It was supposed to mean “People That Love” but many (including myself) called it “Pass The Loot”.
DJ (Email) - 08/30/08 - 12:07

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