02/24/11 42 W, 1 I - + 4 - 4 Caption This Photo

Scene from yesterday's two alarm fire on Hoyle Drive. And you know what the motorist is asking these guys... See more photos by Mike Legeros, taken maybe twenty minutes after units arrived.

Good stop “B”. Anyone that was there, fill us in…..why don’t we see any ground ladders thrown for egress for the interior crews?
Silver - 02/24/11 - 19:13

Survey said, “Is there a fire”
Rob Mitchell - 02/24/11 - 19:24

Show me a,“Whats going on?”
Jake T. - 02/24/11 - 19:29

Let me try “Can I get through here?”
DJ - 02/24/11 - 19:54

Don’t forget the always popular “what’s happening?”
Legeros - 02/24/11 - 20:03

As a cop, I find people ask less questions when I have my gas mask on.
rfburns - 02/24/11 - 21:16

@rfburns Do you wear it only at fire scenes or during each tour of duty? :) Cause that might provoke interesting interactions during vehicle stops…
Marshall Sherard KE4ZNR (Email) (Web Site) - 02/24/11 - 21:37

Awesome job north side boys! E-19 pulled a 2 inch and cut that jocker off with the help of E 15 with another 2 inch! A lot citizens still inside the other condoes, great evac by 15, Kick but job by the L-2 boys opening it up inside, looked like a butt kicker when we arrived with fire showing out the roof. But again another great stop with some big cotton on the ground we kept it from burning the whole building and R-1 was there also! Be safe brothers proud to be part on the triangle!
Jason Lane - 02/24/11 - 23:37

Typical Driver Statement…..
Driver – “I live on this street, can I get to my house?”
FD Pointing – “Sure can, just pull up there and park the car and you can walk to your house.”
Middle FD – “Nah man, if he parks there then the truck company won’t be able to come in.”
FD Red Helmet – “Hey Capt., What’s his address…”
Driver – “Um… Ummm…. The white house…”
JM - 02/25/11 - 01:38

“Yes sir, if you just pull to lane 3 we will get that oil changed in a jiffy.”
ncff - 02/25/11 - 10:13

“Sir we come out once a week to different areas and park trucks with lights on just to see who the first dumba__ is to ask what we are doing. Guess what, you won.”

Years ago when we were vollies I actually had a buddy use that line on someone when we were on a call.
Scooter - 02/25/11 - 10:22

Scooter…that’s funny as $h!t.
whocares - 02/25/11 - 10:26

“Are you guys with the Fire Department?”
Beach (Email) - 02/25/11 - 13:36

WOW Silver asking why there isn’t ground ladders,don’t think I have ever seen that on the site before. I hope one day Silver gets to fight fire so he can stop telling the rest of the RFD how they should have done it!!!!!!!!!
Wishing I was Silver - 02/25/11 - 15:44

While there could be many reasons that there were no ladders visible in the photos: picture angle, already taken down, not thrown in the first place, and whatever else, I believe that it is a good subject to discuss on here. I am not trying to armchair QB anyone, but firefighter safety should be more of a concern than it has been to us in the past. We were just discussing the need for our aerial and ground ladders for firefighter egress during our last shift (at my non-RFD company), and we all agreed that it is sometimes overlooked for various reasons. We really should ask ourselves whether there is truly a reason to overlook our safety. Is it reasonable for me to tell someone’s family that we didn’t throw ladders because we "just didn’t have the manpower," or "thought it would be a quick knockdown," or whatever else supposedly surmounts our safety? It simply boils down to a culture change for all of us when it comes to throwing ladders. We need to get in the habit of looking out for ourselves as well as those that we are there to help. While it may seem like criticism to some, reviewing tactics on sites such as this one assist us all in becoming better firefighters, as we can view our mistakes through pictures and video. No fire is ever perfect, and we can always do things better and safer for the next time.
Bob P. - 02/25/11 - 17:18

Great stop by the crews!! The fire was controlled in roughly 15 mins. I wasnt there but looking at the pics, during that 15 mins. they had to pull 3, 2 inch lines (im pretty sure not all had full crews either) attack the fire, get a line into the attic, a backup line, search the primary apartment, search and evacuate several other apts, secondary search, set the aerial up for possible operations (which probably was the crew who has to also set up ground ladders and about 100 other things to get done also, I am also pretty confident that ladders were going to be thrown at any time but by the time more help arrived the fire was put out. Like i said, i wasnt there so i cant say for sure but it damn sure was a great stop and job by the crews there!
gen3fire - 02/25/11 - 18:56

First off, you could never be me, because you’re a punk.

Second, ummmm, yeah, not even the case. Just asking for a rundown from someone that was there, versus just posting something which amounts to drivel, as you did above.

Let me explain how things work son; Jason (who is man enough to post his name and have a discussion with fellow Brethren, all while not taking any offense) explained that a high life hazard and a ton of hook work dedicated the Rescue and Ladder to going interior. This is how justification is obtained, to say, beg and plead the “powers that be” to add extra units to a response or when a “working fire” is declared.

When you’re a contributing member attempting to affect positive change (not just change for the sake of change), and constantly evaluating a new procedure/policy that you had a hand in writing, it doesn’t hurt to ask questions to obtain valid information, which was the case here (possibly resulting in a review of some things). Had I posted anything which was an attempt at stirring the pot, I would have clearly taken the coward route, like yourself. But, I do have to look myself in the mirror so I tend to man-up (noticing some gray though, yikes!).

I think I’m going to become one of these computer tough guys, so I can sit behind a keyboard and get a jab in without recourse. Man, you really showed me!

Stay safe, thanks for speaking J’....
Silver - 02/25/11 - 19:58

Jeff, all you do on here is bash the way YOUR department does things or the way others do things while trying to make it look like you are just curious. Just worry about what you do when you are at work and not what the rest of the RFD does.
Wishing I Was Silver - 02/26/11 - 17:06

Wrong again tough guy….we didn’t spend a year training and developing a policy to shrug things off and not review what we have in place. Don’t worry, the 30%ers will handle it while you collect a paycheck (google Jake Rixner 30% b/c I know you have no idea). I have never gone on here saying “we need to do this because so and so does it”. Everything we do is supported with fact and justification. If I were to come on here and constantly bash the place that I give 100% for, do you really think I would use my name? You’re entitled to your opinion; right, wrong or indifferent. Keep resisting the culture change…..

Bobby P., you’re spot on…..
Silver - 02/26/11 - 19:27

And another thing….what I DO do on here is give my opinion and stand behind what I believe, supported with fact, and not be scared (or mad) if someone asks a question to me, face to face. I contribute EVERY DAY when I’m at the firehouse, and I always try to think “what could I have done better” after any incident.

Maybe I’ll try the way you’re accustomed; pats on the back all the way around, then trash them as soon as they walk away. I’ll be the first to say, it’s better to ask someone that was there to fill us in then use some stupid, quirky name and bash/quarterback someone. It’s obvious you’ve never worked beside me and already have a predetermined opinion.

I’m done with you…good day.
Silver - 02/26/11 - 20:05

Silver, don’t waste your time…you’d have better luck talking to a wall! You have to consider the source and just feel sorry for them if they are that small-minded and visionless.
GH - 02/26/11 - 20:24

Let’s keep this civil, gang. Passionate is great. Personal attacks, less so.

Don’t make activate my Acme anti-ugliness filter. (Only works on tone, thank goodness, and not also looks. I wouldn’t be able to post otherwise!!).
Legeros - 02/26/11 - 20:30

You’re right GH, thanks…
Silver - 02/27/11 - 00:25

Jeff thanks for the passionate questions! Ok I will be brief! Just like anything else we train on, they are “tools for the tool box”! Yes a year of training our butts off on ladder ops we have learned allot and added some new stuff on how we operate on the fire ground. We didnít throw any ground ladders due to the high life safety (evac) of the citizens. I will not argue why or why not with anyone! Just like ground ladders our 2 inch attack lines are also tools on the rig! Engine boys opted to stretch a 2 versus the standard 1.5 inch; we (ladder and rescue) chose to go do a quick search and evac on the rest of the building since we had citizens in the other condos. When we saw our engine crews were putting the fire out with the 2 inch we moved on to open up the inside and assist them with the fire! We discussed this at the critique the other night and all of us were on the same page! Every fire is different and you take what you have learned in training weather new or in service to get the job done! All citizens made it out safe, all firefighters went home safe and we stopped the fire from burning the whole dang building down! So I am also done with this one, for those that donít work with us or want to always Monday morning quarter back us all I will say is when you come on board and make white helmet at RFD, than you can micro manage the way we operate!! Anyway be safe brothers, buckle up it will save your life! By the way Jeff I have been on 13 working fires since I came to the rescue in July!
Jason Lane - 02/27/11 - 12:37

Hi J’, thanks for this explanation. As you know, because you have been to some of the meetings, I am a believer in dealing with the fire you have going RIGHT NOW. While it is important to fill gaps for what might develop, if you put the fire out all the danger goes away. I am glad you posted because it confirmed what I thought and it is a reoccuring trend; high life hazard fires are going to require more “special service” units to get all of the necessary “truck work” done.

While I understand we can’t get a second Ladder on all fires, because it would really be a statistical nightmare, it would be so helpful to give us one on the “working fire dispatch”. Looking at the number of working fires for the past three years, it would only add an average of 169 runs in a year amongst the other Ladder Companies. When members are dedicated
to the search, we need help getting the other stuff done (venting, ladders, utility control).

While vertical venting can be considered a “tool for the toolbox”, throwing ground ladders for egress ranks up there with primary search and initial ventilation, as it is making the tireground “safer” for us, and gives us a quick way out if “it” hits the fan. Therefore, they MUST be deployed at every working incident, when members are working in the IDLH.

J, 13? Damn, you’re lucky!!! I gotta get me one of those “fun” assignments!!!
Silver - 02/27/11 - 13:04

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